The joys of spring
...daffodil season
SHE CALLED me. I had been sent this afternoon for quite an easy case in a court in a little town in Sussex. Had a lovely snooze on the train on the way there. Strolled from the station, stopping to collect some lunch' on the way. The sun was shining, and the pleasant little town to which I had been sent had daffodils in bloom on all the little traffic islands.
Just as I crossed the quiet little road, whose banks were lined with flowers, outside the court, at about ten past one this afternoon, my mobile telephone rang. I retrieved my telephone from my pocket straight away, while standing on a traffic island, expecting the call to be related to the case that I had been sent to do, and was somewhat surprised to see Catelyn's name, especially since she hadn't responded to the e-mail that I had sent her the previous week.
"Hello! How are you?" I answered.
"Fine; are you in London?"
"No, I'm in [Sussex Town]."
"I'm [inaudible]"
"What was that, sorry?" The traffic in the nearby main road made it hard to hear clearly. After not hearing her for a second time, I put her on speakerphone so that I could hear her properly.
"I'm in [big London court]."
"Ahh, I'm in [Sussex town]."
"If you were in London, I thought we could meet up for lunch'"
"Ahh, rats." I paused for a moment and thought whether there was a practical way of meeting all the same, and quickly realised that there wasn't. "Pity. We'll have to arrange another time to meet up."
"Yes, definitely!"
We wished each other a pleasant afternoon, and I went about my way. Won the case and enjoyed the daffodils on the way back, too. And managed a passable waltz in the dance class this evening.
So, is this a friend zone thing, this last minute luncheon invitation; or a sign of interest; or too ambiguous to call?
25 remarks:
She's interested, but maybe dating around. She can't commit to serious plans because she doesn't want to lead you on if maybe she isn't interested, but she is also interested enough that she was thinking about you and hoping to spend some time together.
Phone her and arrange a time and place to meet up. Don't hide behind email, be assertive and masterful and do it via the telephone. She'll likely appreciate that a lot more and be more responsive and forthcoming.
Thank you for your comments! Although, they seem to contradict each other. Hmm.
Perpetual - I have tried the telephone thing before without a great deal of success. I always end up on voicemail, which I can't see is any better than e-mail; indeed, I remember reading somewhere that it's somewhat impolite to leave people voice mail messages, since it is easier to read an e-mail or a text message than listen to a voice mail message.
And, in any event, given that she's miles away, how would I pick a time that has any real chance of being convenient for her?
Coatman, this is what I'd suggest. Phone her up and if you get voicemail, don't leave a message - just try again at a different time.
When she answers tell her that you thought it would be easier to arrange something over the phone, because you're both busy people with hectic diaries. That allows you to have the conversation about, where and when and get it all sorted. Have a couple of dates in mind but be flexible if you need to be. You never know, you may end up having quite the enjoyable conversation which will also give you some pointers as to what you could do on the actual date.
Good luck chap, don't be too intimidated by it - it does get easier.
perhaps I am traditional, but I am always impressed by a phone call, especially now that it is easy for people to be lazy and shoot a text. I went on a nice date once but then a few days later the guy texted me on a wed night asking if I was out at the bars. I lost interest by his overly casual stance and assumption i'd be bought so easily. Girls love a real date...and even a guy she's lukewarm about can win her over. Just show her what there is to love! _ dating is my hobby :)
I don't know about phoning without leaving a message. There are a number of guys who phone me multiple times (sometimes even dozens of times) without leaving a message, and it simply comes across as creepy and borderline stalker-ish. I actually don't mind emails and texts (I get quite nervous on the phone).
Then again, that could just be a me-thing. I'm the last person in the world to whom anyone should turn for dating advice!
"'Blog" is bad enough, but "Lunch'"? Seriously?
I had precisely the same thought as manshopping: calling without leaving a message then calling again just screams creepy. This is coming from a woman's point of view as well. Either call her and submit to a voice message if she does not pick up, or I would say text or email is also fine. You've already both agreed you want to meet, ball seems to be in your court. I would be clear to invite her out for drinks or dinner, something not so casual as lunch.
Thank you everyone for your comments, inconsistent with each other though they sometimes are!
As to calling her - I've already invited her (by e-mail) to come to London for the afternoon. She has not accepted that invitation by virtue of not having responded to the e-mail. I think that it would be inappropriate to repeat that same invitation by telephone.
I can't invite her to come all the way to London from Bristol (about 135 miles) just for dinner and/or drinks, and it was not to lunch' that I had invited her in the e-mail; but that is what she suggested yesterday. I had suggested lunch' in the past, before I realised that she might be interested/available, and, indeed, we had agreed then that she would let me know when she was in London so that we could meet up for lunch', which is what it seems that she has been attempting to arrange since.
Anonymous no. 2 - yes, seriously, lunch' as well as 'blog - I regard lunch' as positively informal compared to the more correct "luncheon" which I sometimes prefer; and don't get me started on "pram" versus "perambulator" or the fact that there are four syllables in "parliament", and three in "chocolate" and "library".
Hey, I also noticed lunch' and totally loved it. It is such a CoatMannish thing to write!
CoatMan, whatever you do, just pin her down. As spiral said, be assertive and masterful. Arrange for a concrete time and place. You need to know that your space-time coordinates will intersect. None of this murky "getting together sometime" stuff. Do whatever it takes. Worry about the end, not the process.
JAC
Phone calls are such a nice change these days - but do leave a message and not just a trail of missed calls. Even if she's shy on thephone it is a much more definitive gesture than a quick text/email, and after all - she did call you....
JAC: Do remember that, as described in the initial post about the latest Catelyn episode, we already have fixed a time - the Mayday week-end. The issue is whether we can meet in London before then. And saying "do whatever it takes" is all very well, but what exactly does it take that won't blow it is the real issue.
Mud: Catelyn is definitely not shy, on the telephone or anywhere else. And, certainly, if I happened to be in Bristol, I'd call her. But doing so without pretext to do nothing more than repeat something that I've already asked her about would be somewhat inappropriate.
Too ambiguous to call. Honestly. You read my post on dating advice. None of us know you or Catelyn or the situation well enough to really know what's going on, and not a one of us can read her mind.
I'm very tempted to leave some advice of my own, but then that would just be my opinion - and as you can tell, the ladies here all have different preferences and opinions on the matter. Don't overthink it. Just whatever you do, do it with confidence (though not arrogance). :) Have fun!
call, leave a message. It's not impolite to leave a message. But the fact that she's from out of town is difficult. Leave a message asking when she next plans to be in London?
Alternatively, find a reason to be in Bristol and arrange something then? Go for a visit of your own accord, do some photography etc. hmmmm that could be ott....
Singlegirlie: If you don't know what's going on, then I haven't a clue either! There's a difference, I think, between a proclaimed universal technique supposedly guaranteed to work for all comers and the giving of insight based on understanding and experience.
Wittery: I am not stalking Catelyn all the way to Bristol, especially when I'm due to go and see her there in two weeks' time in any event! And as to calling - what would I ask her that I haven't already asked her in the e-mail to which she hasn't responded? As to asking her when she's next in London - I imagine that she'll call me again, as we had arranged in any event from as long ago as January.
I think that I may be relegated to sitting and waiting until my appointed visit, unless, perchance, I happen to end up in Bristol.
Addendum: I don't mind waiting - I just don't want to blow it.
"Although, they seem to contradict each other. Hmm."
"...inconsistent with each other though they sometimes are!"
Well, what were you expecting - a uniformed response? Women are as different from each other as are men.
I came here via the Singlegirlie blog and her comment "Don't overthink it. Just whatever you do, do it with confidence (though not arrogance). :) Have fun!" is about as good advice as you're going to get. There is no 'proclaimed universal technique supposedly guaranteed to work for all comers...' and I think you know that already.
As a female based in London, can I just say that I wish men would be a little more forward: pick up the phone, invite her out. If you must, go to Bristol! Having a guy show his interest is utterly charming - we know how difficult it is!
I'll leave you with a little tale... Years ago, I used to help run a little shop for a delightful lady named Muriel down in Devon. Muriel had been very happily married to her husband, David for well over 40 years. Over the Summer, they often joked about their first date and how they met - she used to be a nurse and he was a doctor.
The story goes: David arranged to pick her up from her flat. When he arrived, he asked where she would like to go for dinner; Muriel suggested an Indian restaurant in Birmingham (they were in London). Without a flinch, he drove them there (and back) that same night. She told me privately, that she knew then that he was was the man for her. They laughed about that story 40 years on until she, sadly, passed away last year.
If you think she's worth it, go the distance. If it turns out that its not to be, then you've probably just made her day (or night) and you've earned yourself a funny anecdote to blog about.
Whatever you decide to do, just don't over think it. After all, it is only a date.
Heather: I really wasn't looking for a "proclaimed universal technique..."; just a little insight would be helpful. Of course people are different from each other, but there are a great many things that most people have in common, including an understanding of the etiquette and basic expectations of courtship in any given culture.
The real trouble is: how on earth to draw the line between being "forward" and "needy"?
The trouble is that you don't seem to want to find a solution to your (non?) problem, you'd rather lament how everything is so difficult and impenetrable.
Read between the lines; all the answers to life are nestled in between them.
Heather: Why do you think that I don't want to find a solution? And why do you think that not knowing what to do in such situations is a non-problem?
Agree with manshopping.
Man, all this stuff is such a headtrip, though, isn't it? Makes you wish we could all walk around with mood rings so we can be read more easily.
Yes! Mood rings and a little HUD that showed which people on a crowded/train 'bus were going to get off at the next stop so that I could stand next to their seats...
5+
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